Suggestions handy for cave diving

Discussions about Diving Log 6.0 - questions and hints
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dbrooks
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 06:25

Suggestions handy for cave diving

Post by dbrooks »

Hi there,

Let me first extend my thanks for an excellent piece of software. More and more it's becoming a critical tool for me to track my diving progress. I've noticed a few things that I think would be interesting features to have, and to be able to track -- notably for cave diving.

There's a few extra fields that I feel would be greatly useful, especially for cave dives (especially if they could be tracked and averaged over time where appropriate):

1) Turn pressure - at what pressure was overhead penetration halted and egress begun?
2) Turn time - how long into the dive was overhead penetration halted and egress begun?
3) Turn distance - how far into the cave/overhead environment were you when penetration was halted?
4) Line condition - how was the main line condition, with user-defined or pre-populated values (good, worn, loose, none, etc)
5) Cave Particulate - gravel, sand, silt, clay, none, other, etc.
6) Planned Turn Pressure (Thirds) - what was your calculated thirds? This could of course be pre-populated based on tank size and starting pressure as a default value, but would likely need to be manually modified by the user based on critical pressure of other dive team members
7) Planned Turn Time
8) Planned Turn Distance
9) Planned Turn Depth
10) Number of executed jumps from main line
11) Traverse - yes/no
12) Maybe a field in general, not specific to cave diving necessarily, to note any sort of equipment failure or condition that caused the premature termination of a dive.

Being able to track these values within DivingLog would be a fantastic addition for cave divers, as just about every dive would require these values to be planned and noted. Or, if there was a way I could add my own custom values (and have them tracked/averaged/graphed/etc.) that would be great too -- perhaps I'm just too new with the software and I don't realize how to do such a thing. I have not seen any obvious ability by editing dives in the table view.

More more sidebar question, could an LP95 tank be added to the default list of tank types? 95 cu. ft. @ 2640 working pressure. It would be great to be able to define that without having to add a custom value every time.

Thanks again for the great software!
whodunit68
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Re: Suggestions handy for cave diving

Post by whodunit68 »

I'm primarily a cave diver so appreciate the fields you're looking for. Do you think you can make use of the user-defined fields that already exist?
Open the logbook, click on the tab "Additional," on the left side click on the tab called "User-Defined Fields," right click to edit field names, then you have the text fields of course.
dbrooks
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Re: Suggestions handy for cave diving

Post by dbrooks »

I could certainly add my own custom values, with the downside that those values don't seem to be tabulated over time, which I think would be a rather neat set of data. Obviously it's less important with things like line condition, etc., but some other things like turn pressure/depth/distance and planned values would be interesting.
divinglog
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Re: Suggestions handy for cave diving

Post by divinglog »

Hi

Thank you very much, I'm glad you like Diving Log! Great suggestions for cave diving! I will add them to my list of future database extensions, but I can't promise that all of them will be implemented. I'll also try to improve the user defined fields feature.

Each database modification and every new field has to be implemented not just on the desktop, but also on phone and tablet apps, so I have consider it carefully to avoid bloating the app too much. But I try also to make it as useful as possible to all kind of dives.

Best regards,
Sven
ozrik
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Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 15:48

Re: Suggestions handy for cave diving

Post by ozrik »

Hi,
I also want to express my satisfaction with DivingLog. It's an excellent piece of software, and has become an integral part of my dive analysis and planning.
I agree with the original poster, all of his suggestions would be great additions to the functionality for those of us who cave dive. Sven, based on what you said about the impact of making these types of changes, would it be an option to make something like this modular? So for instance have some sort of extension for those who cave dive, and other specialties? Just a thought.
Also on the topic of tanks that are not on the current standard list, is there a way of adding them through configuration, or is this something that would have to be put in a release? Some of the most common tanks technical divers in the US use are not on the current list (S72,S85,S95,S104,S108) so I end up having to type them in.

Thanks again for a great product, and keep up the great work.
divinglog
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Re: Suggestions handy for cave diving

Post by divinglog »

Thank you for your kind words! Not sure about the modular system, I think it will increase the development work even more. I think due to the layout designer it is already possible to create different layouts for different dive types. I just have to make sure that the performance doesn't suffer too much. Btw, I've added the new tank sizes you've suggested, thank you!
dbrooks
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Re: Suggestions handy for cave diving

Post by dbrooks »

Thanks for adding the tank sizes!

Also, thanks for looking into the additional fields I mentioned above -- I know it's not a trivial amount of work to implement schema changes, but your responsiveness and willingness to continually improve your software are what keeps it solidly ahead of the pack.

I like Ozrik's modular idea -- not just for cave divers, but lots of different types of diving people do that may require certain bits of information others divers don't care about. It's a ton of work, but it could also be an interesting revenue model. Pay $X for the basic software, then pay a little extra for add-on modules that plug in that maybe not everyone needs.

Just musing, here. :)
MeRodent
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Re: Suggestions handy for cave diving

Post by MeRodent »

Any chance of adding 11.1l and 12.2l for those of us that live in the real world :twisted: and use metric sizes?

Plus 207 and 232 bar as options for tank pressure?

Thanks.
divinglog
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Re: Suggestions handy for cave diving

Post by divinglog »

MeRodent wrote:Any chance of adding 11.1l and 12.2l for those of us that live in the real world :twisted: and use metric sizes?

Plus 207 and 232 bar as options for tank pressure?
As you know, here in Germany we have the metric system, but I never heard of a 11.1 and 12.2 liter tank. Where do you have those tanks? We have 11 and 12 and 15 liter tanks (even numbers) and everywhere I dived.

And why 232 bar and not 231 or 233? I mean, the start pressure is different at every dive, does it really make sense to add these 2 values? In my opinion, entering values which are not in the list is not slower than selecting a value with the mouse.
MeRodent
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Re: Suggestions handy for cave diving

Post by MeRodent »

divinglog wrote:
MeRodent wrote:Any chance of adding 11.1l and 12.2l for those of us that live in the real world :twisted: and use metric sizes?

Plus 207 and 232 bar as options for tank pressure?
As you know, here in Germany we have the metric system, but I never heard of a 11.1 and 12.2 liter tank. Where do you have those tanks? We have 11 and 12 and 15 liter tanks (even numbers) and everywhere I dived.

And why 232 bar and not 231 or 233? I mean, the start pressure is different at every dive, does it really make sense to add these 2 values? In my opinion, entering values which are not in the list is not slower than selecting a value with the mouse.
Hello Sven, the Fabers we get here in Australia (comply with Australian standards) are actually 12.2l volume.
Catalina S80 cylinders are actually 11.1l.

And the tank pressure options are for Rated fill pressure (not actual fill pressure).


Actually since these vary from location to location (I was surprised how many different sizes, with marginal differences faber make when I checked their catalog) it might be easier if the list auto-populated with currently used values like the dive sites etc.
rene
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Re: Suggestions handy for cave diving

Post by rene »

MeRodent wrote: Hello Sven, the Fabers we get here in Australia (comply with Australian standards) are actually 12.2l volume.
Catalina S80 cylinders are actually 11.1l.
Hello,

Yes S80 are 11.1l. I recently dived with S100 @ 3300 psi cylinders (in the Maldives), they are 13.2l volume...

http://www.luxfercylinders.com/products ... ns?units=0
http://www.catalinacylinders.com/ScubaSpec.pdf
divinglog
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Re: Suggestions handy for cave diving

Post by divinglog »

Thank you for the explanation! So from my understanding these are tanks made for imperial units, but used by metric divers.
MeRodent
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Re: Suggestions handy for cave diving

Post by MeRodent »

Hi Sven, I think what is happening in some cases is that the same size tank is used in different markets and seen as a different tank. Some tanks will be stamped with both an imperial size and the water content, meaning you can choose it as either imperial sizing or metric.

I still think the best solution (won't say the easiest as I don't know what's involved in the changes) given how many options there are would be to have the tank sizes remembered as per the dive sites.
divinglog
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Re: Suggestions handy for cave diving

Post by divinglog »

Yes, I will do this in metric units because it can be easily done there. Diving Log stores everything in metric units internally, so it is just a database query to get previous used tank sizes. However I cannot do this for imperial tank sizes, because it is not just a database query, it requires also some calculation due to the working pressure. And this would be too slow when there are many dives in the logbook.
rene
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Re: Suggestions handy for cave diving

Post by rene »

divinglog wrote:Yes, I will do this in metric units because it can be easily done there. Diving Log stores everything in metric units internally, so it is just a database query to get previous used tank sizes. However I cannot do this for imperial tank sizes, because it is not just a database query, it requires also some calculation due to the working pressure. And this would be too slow when there are many dives in the logbook.
Another solution would be adding a table for tanks, like suunto dm4 for example... but would require a modification of the database schema :wink:
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